pretty good lutherans

20 Responses to “‘Is God’s grace really enough?’”

1. Lynne Says:
   January 17th, 2010 at 12:34 pm

   Heather,

   I’m sad for your experience today. I’m afraid you aren’t alone across our church, or many American churches right now. Most parish clergy are under enormous pressure with local finances in crisis mode, and denominations in open struggle. That stress spills out in various ways. But your pastor was out of line in his comment. It distracted the community from its worship, and made his political point the issue.

   I encourage you to have a private conversation or email and confront your pastor on his side comments. Even if you don’t get an appropriate apology, you will have taken your concerns to the source and stood up.

   If these side comments about the denomination continue in worship, I encourage you to keep connected to your small group but continue to seek a more generous and grounded preacher in the meanwhile. This, too, shall pass, and you don’t need to leave the ELCA over one pastor and his personal POV.

   Perhaps you want to send him a link to your entry here As a former parish pastor, I know very well many of the mistakes I made, caused in part by the stresses of the job. I really appreciated the times that people calmly talked with me about them so I could make amends. Give it a try, and see what comes.

2. Katelyn Says:
   January 17th, 2010 at 12:41 pm

   “Lutheran” has become (at least in my experience) a term describing “Scandinavian, coffee drinkin’, lefse and lutefisk lovin’, liturgy-followin’ people” …. Basically, that description encompasses many Midwestern USA Christians.

   Anyway, I enjoyed your thoughts here. I wonder sometimes, too, what we really stand for. I wonder mostly where evangelism has gone (after all, the word “evangelical” is in our name).

   My observations are only reflective of what I’ve seen in surrounding churches and perhaps the synod, but I just feel like we’re all closing in on ourselves. It’s not that we’re not welcoming, it’s that we’re not out there spreading the good news and inviting others to church.

   We need to not keep God in the box of Sunday mornings and Wednesday evenings. We need to get out in reality and not just stay in our comfortable congregations.

   Obviously this is a broad generalization I’m making, but it has proven true for many I’ve encountered. Our traditions are not the only ways of doing things or glorifying God.

   I believe grace is enough, for it comes from God and God is more than enough, but our response to grace is not. We can’t just say “Hi, Jesus, glad I’m saved, see ya when I get to heaven.” Absolutely not.

   We are called to be people of action and we need to be aware of those in need. Right now, that’s clearly Haiti.

3. Heather Says:
   January 17th, 2010 at 12:59 pm

   Thank you all for your comments.

   I am all about the message of God’s grace. Coming from a different tradition, growing up, I like that God’s grace takes a lot of the pressure off of me and doing the right thing. Not that it is an excuse for idleness. In terms of salvation, God’s grace is enough.

   This morning, this song just seemed out of sync with what was going on in the world. We’re asking God to remember God’s children (which folks in Haiti came to mind), and then we sing that grace is enough, in a sense of celebration. The two messages butted against each other and seemed in conflict.

   Too bad there is not a song that says “Remember your children who are suffering. Be with them in their suffering.” That would have seemed more appropriate, at least in light of what was on my heart and, I would presume, the hearts of many this morning.

4. Jeff Says:
   January 17th, 2010 at 1:54 pm

   The reality is that what you are experiencing, Heather, is happening all over this nation, and not only in the ELCA.

   Churches, pastors, and lay leaders are often forsaking worship with integrity and good music (traditional or modern) for the sake of trying to tbe the church of “what’s happening now”. In the post CWA and smack dab in a recession the focus will be on survival, not necessarily good theology. Throw in a church that is mostly Eurocentric; postmodernmism, and the fact that most of our Mosiacs and busters, the young ones, are leaving or have left mainline churches, and what Heather is experiencing will only increase.

   I would suggest everyone read “unChristian” by Kinnamen and Lyons. The term refers to how non-believers view Christians-as self righteous and self-absorbed.

   The key in all this is keep the focus on sola fide, sola gratia, sola scriptura, and Word and Sacrament ministry.

   How we do that is the challenge.

5. Timothy Says:
   January 17th, 2010 at 2:52 pm

   Yes, God’s grace is enough!
   It looks weak
   Pathetic
   Naked
   Humiliated
   Dangling by a thread
   Held up by rusty nails of a cross

   This morning we heard what happened on the Third Day
   In an impoverished hick town called
   Cana in Galilee

   All the residents beaten down
   Party over way too soon
   Ran out of wine
   Joy down the drain
   When one momma told her Boy
   You gotta do somethin’

   And what the Cana of Galilee-ites saw
   Revealed the mind and heart of God
   Grace, grace, and more grace
   180 gallons of swiftly, flowing, moving grace
   This was the first clue
   Evidence of the identity of Jesus

   The ultimate clue was still to come
   Third Day resurrection
   Following messy, nasty, earthquake death
   Yes, grace is enough
   And grace will win!

   And the ELCA
   She is at her best
   When the grace she has received overwhelms her
   And spills over and drenches others regardless of who they are

   Graced people, grace people
   And it must be believed in order to be seen
   Amen

6. Erik Samuelson (pubpastor) Says:
   January 17th, 2010 at 4:36 pm

   I’m with you sister, it seems so often as though we don’t actually believe the theology we carry. While its true that “they will know we are Christians by our love” its also true they will know that we are hypocrites when we say love but don’t do love.

   But I do think Grace is enough–actually more than enough. But we’ve forgotten that those to whom its been given are called to share it. There is plenty of food in the world, we just hoard it. There is plenty of time in our lives, we just use it poorly. There are plenty of gifts in your congregation and in mine, we just don’t always use them the way we are called to. There is plenty of grace in the world, and here we sit with piles and piles of it–and we forget that the reason God give us abundant gifts is not because we are so worthy (even if some of us are pretty good). We’ve got abundant gifts and overflowing blessings because we are supposed to be the ones sharing them. If we get how amazing grace really is, then we feed people, heal their wounds, or provide them with clean drinking water.

   The previous pastor at my congregation repeatedly reminded folks that “We’re just forgiven sinners freeloading on the Grace of God.” Which is true, of course. And while its true that as Lutheran we can now just hang out, knowing that our salvation is taken care of, that’s not what God is actually calling us to do. Sitting around enjoying being forgiven maybe all right for us, but it really sucks for our neighbor. So let’s take Grace seriously enough to put it to work for the sake of our neighbor, and maybe they’ll get a sense of how truly amazing our God is.

   I’ll second @Jeff on the book unChristian. And @Timothy, I wish I’d had your amazing poem before worship today–would have slam dunked my sermon! I’m putting that in the file for next time around.

7. Heather Says:
   January 17th, 2010 at 4:54 pm

   Well said, Erik. I appreciate your comments on grace. I think often people want to just sit and bask in the grace of God; sit and absorb it. And I think, perhaps, there are people that need to do that very thing–wounded people who need to just take in the amazing gift of grace. But there comes a point when we have to be mobilized to be grace in action. And when we do, the world becomes a better place for our neighbor.

   I suppose where my discouragement came from is that I have been grieving and mourning the loss of people in Haiti, the destruction there, etc. And the mood of the service didn’t match. Often, contemporary worship (in my opinion) is filled with songs that create a personal and, dare I say, private relationship between Jesus and me, instead of a transformative relationship that calls us into the world to care for others.

   I have written far too much, already. But I do appreciate all of your feedback.

8. Holly Hansen Says:
   January 18th, 2010 at 7:11 am

   Heather you wanted to honestly mourn and all you were given was a “Happy Clappy” kind of service that does not do lament well. I have become thoroughly disgusted with worship in the ELCA. Most of what passes for “Contemporary” worship has a theology that is a mile wide and an inch deep. Why did they bother publishing a new worship book when pastors totally ignore it? We have congregations that are far more comfortable with the likes of Rick Warren than Martin Luther. That’s what happens when you go trendy. Lord Have Mercy !

9. Chris Says:
   January 18th, 2010 at 8:30 am

   My comments might echo those of Holly, above …

   Heather, you said that you were turned off when your pastor alluded to the “many problems” our church has. However, I must admit that I was somewhat turned off when you mentioned a sermon series and showing images (presumably through projection technology) … not that these things are in and of themselves bad, but I have only on rare occasion seen them done well in Lutheran churches (and I’m not just picking on churches, necessarily. How many professors or sales reps use PowerPoint effectively? Very few.). Surely it is not an either/or proposition, but … too often we try to catch people with technology or a catchy sermon series title or the latest fads, rather than with the Gospel itself incarnate in the Body of Christ.

   Furthermore, this song “Your Grace is Enough” (written by Matt Maher, performed by Chris Tomlin, as found through a Google search) is surely not what I’d pick … but the lines, “Remember your people, remember your children, remember your promise” could have powerful meaning in these days. Indeed, the eucharistic prayer that we use every Sunday (especially the longer forms) is a kind of prayer where we ask God to remember what he has done for his people Israel and for the whole world in and through Jesus Christ. Thus, if “grace is enough,” the preacher could do well to unpack what grace means, and what it means for God to remember his people, his children, his promise in these times of horror, tragedy, and great pain.

   Grace is enough. However, as a slogan it is easy to say and, in these days, pastorally reckless and insensitive if not unpacked in all its rich theological implications for justice and peace in the world.

   And a few words about denominations. I like denominations (particularly the Lutheran one!) if for no other reason than they give you a discipline, a tradition, a guideline for how to practice and speak of faith. That is, so-called “non-denominational” churches might claim they don’t have a tradition, but they do … yet it is less explicit, less above-the-board, less clear. There’s a certain honesty in participating in a denomination, a certain discipline that focuses our preaching and practicing of faith, a certain blessed inheritance from the saints of earlier generations. Within the collegiality of the denomination, then, that tradition is constantly unpacked and reinterpreted, in conversation (and tension!) with our sisters and brothers who also claim that tradition. Go-it-alone churches and loose associations don’t do it for me … give me the structure and discipline (and accompanying garbage, too) of a tradition and a denomination any day.

10. Brooke Says:
    January 18th, 2010 at 8:57 am

    Heather and others that are disgusted with the worship you have experienced in the ELCA. I am so sorry. I remember going through what you are experiencing. The last several years I attended my home Lutheran congregation, I was extremely frustrated with worship. It felt like a club that was really just there for the fellowship time afterward. Worship wasn’t the priority and outreach/mission wasn’t even on the radar screen and it didn’t seem like the synod cared.

    I then had an opportunity to worship both my home Lutheran congregation and a United Methodist congregation at the same time. I really enjoyed the United Methodist church. I then started seminary to be a pastor in the Lutheran church. Whenever I would go back home, I would get even more frustrated and considered changing to United Methodist. If I was just deciding between the two churches I attended I would have been a United Methodist. But at seminary I learned that not all synods and not all congregations were lack-luster, survival-centered, hypocrites (even though I believe that another name for saint and sinner simultaneously is hypocrite, and there is always room for one more).

    I went onto internship and found a wonderful synod where the Bishop cares about what is going on in the Synod, and takes seriously the definition of a synod as to walk together. I stayed Lutheran.

    And now I find myself called to amazing congregation where I receive not only grace but challenge (aka law and gospel) from not only the senior pastor but the congregation members themselves (and hopefully I do the same).

    I am a Wartburg Theological Seminary grad and knew Ben Larson and have been deeply grieving for him and the others in Haiti, all the while trying to lead as well. Our senior pastor preached an amazing sermon using the lectionary Gospel, water into wine, that not only spoke to those of us who are grieving, but challenged us to speak up, give, and help, because we are water into wine people.

    The gospel lesson could have betrayed us into having a party, but that’s only if we let it. Our Gospel lesson for Sunday could have been used to speak to our situations (whatever they are, not necessarily just Haiti).

    I remember my frustrations with my home congregation and how I almost let the one congregation speak for the entire ELCA. But now I have found an ELCA congregation (and I keep finding others, to0) that truly does live out Evangelical Lutheran and knows what it means. I pray you can find one as well.

    Keep praying for the ELCA and its congregations. But please don’t let a bad experience with one taint your ideas on the ELCA. There is too much good going on with the ELCA and we need to tell those stories.

    Speaking of good news … some good news on my home congregation where outreach wasn’t even on the radar, this last summer during the city-wide garage sale, they had a garage sale, but everything was free. The folks, for one of the first times, saw the need in the community. People asking for electric blankets without the electric part because they had no electricity, all preparing for winter.

    Keep praying.

    Timothy, that was awesome! It probably just put what I said more succinctly, but I wanted to put my two cents in, too.

11. Chad Says:
    January 18th, 2010 at 9:22 am

    But is God’s grace really enough? That sounds like such a privileged theology. Grace doesn’t feed people, heal their wounds, or provide them with clean drinking water.

    God’s grace is more than enough – as a matter of fact, it’s all we have.

    There’s a certain danger that I notice here:

    Grace is enough. However, as a slogan it is easy to say and, in these days, pastorally reckless and insensitive if not unpacked in all its rich theological implications for justice and peace in the world.

    “Unpacking” the ideas of grace is a tough thing to do well – doing it poorly (which it terribly easy) becomes a life of law: “You gotta, you gotta, you gotta…” No matter how well meaning, how liberal, how conservative, etc., etc. – it leads you right back to despair.

    As much as we need to help the people of Haiti, we also need to keep in mind that situations like this can never be about the weekly “you gotta” followed by the inevitable moving on to the next thing – the next “you gotta”. Only grace can allow us to live a consistent life that allows us to serve our neighbor.

    Since it’s MLK, Jr. day – there’s also a bit of advice worth remembering from one of King’s “mentors”, Reinhold Niebuhr:

    Nothing worth doing is completed in our lifetime; therefore, we are saved by hope. Nothing true or beautiful or good makes complete sense in any immediate context of history; therefore, we are saved by faith. Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore, we are saved by love. No virtuous act is quite as virtuous from the standpoint of our friend or foe as from our own,; therefore, we are saved by the final form of love, which is forgiveness.

    We’re going to help the people of Haiti in the short term, but we need grace to keep in mind that whatever we do there to rebuild in the aftermath of the immediate crisis that is truly worth doing will not be accomplished in our lifetimes.

    One other point:

    And a few words about denominations. I like denominations (particularly the Lutheran one!) if for no other reason than they give you a discipline, a tradition, a guideline for how to practice and speak of faith.

    When we think of “denominations” in the Lutheran sense, we need to keep in mind that we’re not only a “denomination”, but a people that have a confession that is rooted in a history that precedes the very concept of American denominations. To be a “Lutheran” has to be more than being a generic run-of-the-mill Midwestern Protestant; being a Lutheran has to mean living the life of God’s grace – freed from the shackles of the law to serve the neighbor.

    It’s the only way that we can come to terms with our limited existence.

12. Heather Says:
    January 18th, 2010 at 9:53 am

    I was going to respond to each person individually, but I swore I would work on my dissertation today. So, I will just kind of address certain points.

    I, in no way, want to suggest all ELCA churches are the same. I became ELCA after being a life-long Nazarene. It’s quite a switch, but one I am thankful for. In fact, I have looked for other ELCA churches in the area, and while a few exist, at snap judgment, they don’t seem to “fit.” There is one that looks worth checking into.

    I don’t mind contemporary, but I do think there is a way to mix the contemporary with tradition. I appreciate tradition because it binds us to a history of believers before us. (I am not going to go into this, but if you look back through my blog posts–which aren’t numerous–you’ll find my views on tradition). If you walked into my current congregation, you wouldn’t be able to tell it was Lutheran. You would assume it’s a non-denominational church. I knew this when I started going; nothing has changed. It’s just become more apparent, and I have grown weary of it. Also, I have been the one who has changed and my needs and desires for a church have evolved.

    And a couple personal notes:

    Chris–I too get turned off, particularly by sermon series. I, personally, long for lectionary texts that, once again, tie us to other bodies throughout the world. The reason I didn’t shut down, immediately, though, is this is something I come to expect.

    Brooke–Garrett-Evangelical is a UMC seminary. I am familiar with the UMC, but I really do “get” the theology of Martin Luther over John Wesley (after all, I was raised Nazarene–a Wesleyan/Holiness denomination) I have thought of looking at other churches around here in other denominations, namely UMC or UCC. I became Lutheran only 15 months ago, officially (I was baptized and became a member of the congregation), so it’s no life-long affiliation for me. However, I really do like what it means to be Lutheran and wish to stay in the ELCA.

    Thanks again for all of your comments.

13. Timothy Says:
    January 18th, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    Thanks for the conversation!

    I happen to appreciate contemporary/liturgical/Lutheran worship AND traditional/liturgical/Lutheran worship. Heather’s question and comments made me realize that we need to be prepared with “lament worship” services, too.

    Over at http://www.textweek.com I saw that they have some links related to “prayer in time of natural disaster”

    I will be looking into asking my congregation to have some “lament worship” materials at the ready for when (not if) terrible events overtake us.

    Finally, I agree that reading the same assigned texts from the lectionary is good. We need to ask: what was God saying and doing then? what is God saying and doing today?

14. Laurel Massé Says:
    January 20th, 2010 at 8:40 am

    “I knew this when I started going; nothing has changed. It’s just become more apparent, and I have grown weary of it. Also, I have been the one who has changed and my needs and desires for a church have evolved.”

    Heather, I think what you said here is important. It is appropriate to change and grow. As we grow, we outgrow some foods, some clothes, and some expressions of faith. That growth into a deeper and more committed relationship with God can be unbearably uncomfortable, but, once begun, it can’t be stopped, no matter how much you shut down from time to time. Sometimes you can dig deeper in the ground where you are; sometimes, sadly, you have to move on and search for a new community. It’s hard, I know. But though it feels like loss, it is gain. It is all gain.

    Blessings, Laurel

15. David LaMaster Says:
    January 20th, 2010 at 11:51 am

    Heard about prettygoodlutherans through Bishop Thomas Aitken’s Sunday service at First LC, Duluth, as he presided in Pr. April Larson’s absence. We were visiting worshipers last Sunday, but how he did preach the word as we reflected on Cana and the loss of life in Haiti, including the loss of Benjamin Larson.

    Scrolling through the blog entries I believe that I may be the old grandpa in this midst. Retired almost 10 years now, I am anything but retired. I advocate in our congregation and with elected representatives for hunger/poverty assistance through developmental aid.

    Our Bread For the World letter writing Sundays have had varied success in numbers through the last 8 or so years. There is no doubt, however, that when another member of our 1300 member congregation sees me she/he is reminded of our lively evangelical call to care and to pull the beards and necklaces of those in power.

    Grace, as you have testified, is enough in every way. It sure frees me to care and carry on.

    The earlier blog entry about engaging the pastor re: your experience as parishoner and member of the worship community seems like a good option.

    Bless ya’, sister.

16. Lance Says:
    January 22nd, 2010 at 10:06 am

    Dear Heather,

    I did a double-take at your picture to make sure you were not sitting in my congregation Sunday because I said the quoted comment almost verbatim.

    Why? Because I know that need in Haiti is great and that some of my congregation might not be encouraged to give if it is going through the ELCA. They still might choose another outlet to give, but I wanted to say that when they had checkbooks in hand.

    It might be akin to setting aside city budget debates while there is a fire and only a volunteer fire department. We can set aside the debates for the moment–not because they are less important–but because they are less urgent.

    Many Lutherans have learned well about stewardship–giving their money is an extension of their faith. They have given for many years willingly blind. Not so concerned about what the ELCA is doing, but trusting they and the ELCA are doing the right thing.

    It is the issues surrounding CWA ’09 that have made them say, “is this what the ELCA does with the money? Is this the extension of my faith?” It’s been a cold splash in the face. And now they are left wondering what to do–stay, leave, ignore. We might say “oh, why didn’t they get involved earlier? Why did they not do X, Y, or Z, rather than get in huff now?” But such monday morning quarterbacking doesn’t do much good. Yeah, maybe shame on them for not being so up-to-date with the latest machinations of our ELCA or even earlier ones, but these are also the people doing the heavy lifting at the local level–the giving, the working, the worship, the praying.

    For many, what CWA ’09 has done–not just as a one-off event, but as the apex of a long-term trend– is break a trust. And like someone who has been in a 20 year marriage and who has suddenly discovered a long-term breach of trust from their parnter, for that person none of their options look very good. They are feeling a lot like you are.

    May the peace which passes all understanding keep your heart and mind in Christ Jesus.
    Lance+

17. Heather Says:
    January 22nd, 2010 at 11:13 am

    Lance–I am pretty sure I am not sitting in your Congregation, unless you’re using an alias.

    In my church, most people were not aware of CWA ’09 as it was going on, or what was at stake. No mention of it was made before. A letter went out afterwards giving our pastor’s stance. I don’t think our congregation or the members, particularly, necessarily have a long-standing “marriage” with the denomination. I think people have just found a church that happens to have some “fun” music and where they can come wearing their favorite jersey, without having to think about what they will wear. (not saying this is bad–it’s a big perk for me!)

    It will take time to discern where I go or what I do. I am only one member, my husband makes two. There is no desire to upset what “works” for the church, as a whole, just because it doesn’t click with us.

    Thank you for your response.

18. Bill Says:
    January 25th, 2010 at 5:09 pm

    Heather…your pastor makes an offhand comment about the ELCA, and your ability to worship is affected? You sound a little thin-skinned. Cut your pastor some slack. It sounds like he was encouraging people to help those suffering in Haiti. But you question his motives with your disparaging inuendos (“I was impressed that our pastor actually mentioned what’s going on in Haiti”), and then you talk about how you left feeling “discouraged, frustrated, and sad.” Maybe you should question your own understanding of worship instead of your pastor’s understanding of grace.

19. Heather Says:
    January 26th, 2010 at 6:07 pm

    Bill. thank you for your comments. I was not questioning my pastor’s understanding of grace. I was questioning my own understanding, and the general understanding reflected in a song. I, in no way, reflected the entire situation surrounding my experience at this church, its relation to the denomination, etc. Therefore, my reactions were largely rooted in a larger situation and a string of experiences I have had. As for being sensitive, I likely am thin-skinned, because I have been so hurt by the church, in the past. This is my first reintroduction to church, and I desperately want a place to call “home.” I was very cautious to even start learning about the ELCA, as I preferred to just look ahead and focus on a very narrow picture. I wanted nothing to do with the workings of the local church or denomination. Yet, obviously, I did not successfully avoid it all. I would also like to apologize if my remarks seemed like “disparaging innuendo.” That was my intention; I meant that I truly am impressed by any minister who chose to point out the events of the world that can easily be forgotten in the comfort of our U.S. American churches.

    I am not asking anyone to side with me. In fact, when I wrote this piece, I had no intention of sharing it with a broader audience. My question raised, in one portion, was “Is grace really enough?” The other commenters have concluded that yes, grace is, indeed, enough. So, I ask that you also show me some of that grace as I am working through my own experiences.

20. Timothy Says:
    January 30th, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    I believe that “Graced people, grace people”

    To all, and for myself, I ask for an ongoing, overwhelming sense of God’s grace so that we might become God’s grace (the body of Christ) for others.